Therapy Through Fitness: Redefining Group Fitness with Emma Masters
Summary
In this episode of “Meant to Move,” host Vanessa welcomes Emma Masters, who shares her journey from musical theatre to group fitness. Emma discusses her role as a “group therapist,” emphasizing the importance of emotional and mental health over aesthetics in fitness. She describes her studio, Therapy, which offers three modalities: Cycle, Run Lift, and Connect. Each modality aims to provide different therapeutic experiences, from joy and euphoria to empowerment and mindfulness. Emma’s mission is to create non-intimidating fitness environments that focus on emotional well-being and self-love, making exercise enjoyable and accessible for everyone.
Transcript
Vanessa (00:00)
Hello and welcome back to Meant to Move. I’m Vanessa, your host, and I have the excellent and my wonderful friend Emma Masters here. How are you?
Emma (00:11)
Yay, I’m so good. So good. I’m excited for this.
Vanessa (00:15)
Yes, so this is our first one of your recurring segment. I have labelled you the group therapist. How do you feel about your title?
Emma (00:26)
I like it, I like it, it’s fitting.
Vanessa (00:28)
And yes, for anyone listening, if you have absolutely no idea who Emma is, you will know her intimately very shortly. Because Meant to Move is about understanding the people behind movement therapy. It’s about understanding how movement and your emotions and your mental health and everything is so intricately linked. And there’s no one better, in my opinion, to dabble a little bit in the woo woo and a little bit of group and a little bit of something interesting and to open up your eyes than my dear friend Emma. So here we go. First up, why don’t you just tell our lovely listener, what do you do? Like, what are you doing right now that I’ve now given you this label group therapist?
Emma (01:19)
Well, I guess I’ll go back a little bit, which is I’ve been in group fitness for, I keep saying 12 years, it’s probably longer now. I think it’s whatever’s written on your bio. You just continue to say that every time you stand up on stage or get in a podcast, but no doubt it’s longer now, but for a long time before that in a different lifetime, I was a singer and was in musical theatre, which I think lends to where I’m at today because there is an element of performance in what we do. And I guess group therapist or my new title that Vanessa has dawned upon me, which I love, really comes from the fact that I take group fitness, but I make it so much more than that. I stray away from talking about fitness as a pathway to weight loss and aesthetics, but instead a pathway to better emotional health, better mental health, better self-love.
And honestly, in my opinion, it’s a far greater tool for those things than it is for weight loss and aesthetics. And there’s a lot more science and data behind it being a great tool for that, except it just happens to be that our industry has used weight loss and aesthetics as a marketing tool for far too many years, in my opinion. So where I’m at now is that for the last 12 years, I have been working in many different modalities of the group fitness industry, starting in UK. That’s where my dodgy accent comes from.
And then made my way to Australia, whatever it is. So yeah, I’ve been in Australia 12 years. So yeah, I’ve been in the group fitness industry like 15, 16 years. I definitely have made that up. Yeah, because I was like, I met you like that long ago. So yeah, and me and Vanessa have known each other for 10 years, 12 years, 11, somewhere in that 12, And have been in group fitness together since then. And it’s been quite the journey.
Emma (03:07)
For those of you who already know, Vanessa worked for Virgin Active. That’s where we met each other. And we’ve really just been on these very similar, I guess, adjacent tangents in the fitness industry, sometimes working together, which has been beautiful. And if not collaborating or coming together like we are now. And right now, I own a studio which really just encompasses everything I just spoken about. It’s a bricks and mortar space called Therapy, hence the laughing about the title, because
We’re really trying to change the feeling of fitness. We’re trying to go against that fitness industry message that I just spoke to you about and actually show and prove a concept that can be nothing about weight loss or aesthetics and actually be about the mental health, the emotional health, the self-love. And we are proving it. We’ve been open two years. We’re a successful, profitable business and we’re looking for expansion currently. And so I’m really excited to see what the next sort of two, three, four years hold because I’m hoping that we get to prove this concept over and over and over again and help a lot of people. Yeah.
Vanessa (04:12)
So that definitely means you’ll be moving back to Sydney so that you can open one here. No, sorry for those. So if you’re in the Goldie, you need to go check it out if you have not before. I just want to give a little story about when I visited, because I wish I could visit more often, but I went and did your specifically like, so you’ve got three modalities, right? Do want to tell us what the three modalities are before I go into my story?
Emma (04:15)
Maybe one day, who knows?
Emma (04:39)
Yeah, sure. So we have three studios at the moment that could change in future sites. these three particular ones were ones that were really close to our heart. I’m in business with my partner and two other awesome humans that Vanessa also knows. We’re a very tight-knit family community in the fitness industry, and especially in our generation anyway, I think. And so…
Emma (05:04)
It’s three modalities. One is cycle because that was my absolute baby from when I started 15 or whatever. We’ll get the date for next podcast. We’ll decide how long I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been in cycle pretty much ever since then. Different types of cycle, which is another discussion, but this happens to be rhythm cycle. So everything is to the beat of the music. It’s choreography. It’s dance on the bike. It’s fun. It’s euphoric.
And then there is run lift, which is a little bit more cathartic, a little bit more like lift some weights up, run away from what’s holding you back. And the reason I’m describing the rooms like this is because we like to think that each room provides a different type of therapy. So for instance, the cycle room will bring feelings of joy and euphoria and our run lift room, which is a treadmill and weights product and brings feelings of like empowerment and resilience, know, it’s a different kind of therapy, different kind of emotional outcome when you leave the class.
And then the third class, which I think is the one that Vanessa’s gearing me up to talk about is Connect. Connect is my own baby. So Cycle, of course, I didn’t invent. Run Lift is a product that we’ve adapted to make our own, but it’s not brand new, whereas Connect is something that I created from scratch and I’m very proud of it. It’s like Pilates and yoga and conditioning and a little bit of dance and lots of mindfulness. It’s a strange love child. It’s rhythm based. So I wanted to create something that was still driven by rhythm. And so the music very much takes you on a journey, but it’s also light therapy. It’s smell therapy. I use all the senses as much as I can in that class and it’s called Connect because it’s helping you connect deeper to yourself, helping you disconnect from all of the, can I swear on this podcast? Okay, yeah, okay, great. So it’s disconnecting you from all of the bullshit outside and bringing you inwards to connect a bit more to yourself, which we’re all in desperate need of. And we do it in a way that feels challenging, of course, at times it’s in a 35 degree heated room, but it’s also should bring joy and peace and contentment and all of these beautiful yummy feelings.
Emma (07:17)
that you get by the end when you’re laying in Shavasana. Yeah. Yeah, and super sweaty. Definitely, I’m a very sweaty human, so I have a pool of sweat around me. A pool.
Vanessa (07:20)
and super, super sweaty.
Vanessa (07:28)
Yeah, yes. Thank you for those descriptions. I love the, you know, it’s when we describe exercise, we describe the exercise, we don’t describe the feeling of it. So that makes so much sense to me. It’s great. And the words that you used totally resonate with what I’ve felt in those, all of those rooms. So.
Emma actually got me into cycle because I did not like it. so I did, I did learn to dance on a bike and experience the joy and the euphoria that came with, teaching in a room of people moving together in that sense. You know, I come from a dancer background, so it just kind of fell. We’re going to get into the music side in a second, but when I stepped into that connect space, that to me was where the power of what you’ve created really emerged because it’s hard to describe, but you don’t really know what to expect before you go in. And I think that’s the beauty of it. And having these conversations with the movement therapist, you know, people who have coming onto the podcast, when you try to describe a feeling, it’s really hard. That’s why we are so passionate about.
Vanessa (08:49)
face-to-face experiences and feeling these things with your body and stepping into a studio and a bit of unknown and trying to let go of that self-consciousness so you can embrace being there in the moment because that’s exactly what connect does. Completely immersed in that space and letting go of what you should be doing, what other people think of you, where you should be and those other thoughts that kind of pop into your head.
That’s what yoga is great for. But unfortunately for me, yoga is not a great modality for my body. doesn’t, it doesn’t feel good on my body. I’m too hypermobile for most yoga modalities. And I also find it really challenging to be in quiet. And so the moving to the music is so hypnotic. It’s so immersive. I always work out to music like
Vanessa (09:46)
I don’t know how to not work out to music. And I think a lot of people would resonate with that as well. So it makes sense. It totally makes sense. you know, over this little while, as we get to know you, and we’re going to talk about music because this is a big one. So, you know, we had a little bit of a talk about what you do now, but
Vanessa (10:11)
What was your, did you have a defining moment that kind of let you come into the fitness industry or like, or into fitness for yourself? Or was it like a, like a slow burn? Like how did you start to move?
Emma (10:24)
Well, let’s just start straight into the woo woo because you’ve clearly said that’s what my segment’s allowed to be about. So I really believe when you’re meant to do something, you’re led to it. Like I really believe that. And it’s actually just about listening to those signs and following doors that open to take you to the right places. And I think if you’re on the right track, things will feel like there’s ease and flow. Doesn’t mean that it’s easy, but there should be ease. And what I mean by that, there’s a difference between everything just always working out because
Yeah, sure, sometimes that happens, but sometimes we do have to go through challenges even towards the things that we really want. And I think sometimes we need to do those challenges, right? But I think there is an element of flow and ease. Things happen as you work with them in towards that direction. And if you’re going down a path that isn’t for you, you’ll feel a lot of resistance. And I can’t, I would love to quote the person that I heard originally say this, but I’ve definitely said it over and over again since then. So if you know this person, please let me know so I can quote them.
Emma (11:23)
They referred to life like a road with those little, you know, those barriers at the side of the road that go, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, if you swerve into them, right? And I think life is like that. If you’re on the right track, it’s a smooth road. And if you start to veer off and go down the wrong path, you’ll start to meet resistance, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and you’ll feel that, right? Whether that’s through, gosh, anything, a million different things that could turn up as resistance in your life or a warning sign to say, you’re going the wrong way, you know?
And the more we don’t listen, the bigger the bumps get and maybe we’re veering into the sidewalk. But if we start to listen and come back into the road and start to follow the ways that we should be going, then suddenly the road becomes smooth again. And so I’ve always, think, because I’m a very heart led person, followed my heart and done the things that feel right. And so therefore I feel like I’m doing a fairly good job at coming onto the road and listening to those signs if I’m ever veering off sideways. And I think fitness was really that for me because I was nowhere near fitness. In fact,
pull any of my school friends and tell them now that I’m in fitness and they would laugh at you. In fact, I’m sure they still do, the ones that know, because I hated PT, hated it, like couldn’t stand it, tried it so many times, because all my friends did it. And I was always a little odd bod in the drama studio or the dance studio doing the things that they weren’t, you know, they were playing netball and I was like, that’s dumb. Like, I don’t want to, like, why are you pivoting off a foot? You can’t even move with the ball. Like none of it made sense to me. Hockey, just got jammed in the shin with a stick. Like I just didn’t, it didn’t make sense.
And I’m definitely not good at sport, you know, like we’ve just taken up paddle. It’s all the rage at the moment and my partner loves it. So I’m going along and I’m actually having a really good time, but I am pretty bad. I’m pretty bad at it. Like I don’t have great hand-eye coordination. So fitness wasn’t a natural thing for me to go into. Of course I went into musical theatre and I did that for the first, up until I was about 25. And…
Life was going well, except I was coming up against a lot of hurdles in the fitness industry with self-confidence, with my body weight, with body issues. I’ve told this story a lot, but we got weighed on a cruise ship contract every week. We’d line up, have to get on the scales, and they would let us know if we were on track to losing the weight that we needed to lose or whether we’d put on weight or whether, and it was celebrated if you’d lost weight, and I lost an inconsiderable amount of weight.
Emma (13:45)
On that cruise ship, went from a size, I don’t know, probably what I am now, a 10, down to like a 6. Like I was super skinny and I didn’t do it in all the right ways, you know, because I didn’t really know any other way. Like it was like, do this or you’re getting cut from numbers and that felt really, really shitty. And so I think coming out of the back end of that industry, I just didn’t want to stay it anymore. I knew it was very unhealthy for me. And when I was on cruise ships, I met this wonderful guy called Tom who taught spin classes.
And I really loved going to his class and he was really trying to help me get to my results in a safe way, like teaching me about nutrition and what I should eat, when I should eat it, exercise, lifting weights. So he was a really great guide for me at that time. He probably didn’t even realize it. And so when I got off ships and I was thinking, I don’t think this career, this industry is very good for me, I said, maybe I could do what he did. Like that was kind of standing on stage and…
performing and helping people feel something, feel good about themselves. And that’s ultimately what you’re doing as a performer, right? It’s helping people feel things. You watch a movie, you watch a musical, you listen to music. People are feeling things. You’re getting them to feel emotion. And I think that’s what I love doing so much when I was on stage. And so I was like, huh, maybe I could do that. And again, things just slip into place, right? Because then all of a sudden in my awareness, there was a national grant for people that didn’t have degrees and I didn’t ever go to university. I just did my…
studies through musical theatre. So anybody that didn’t have a degree, they were offering free equivalent to hear three set fours. And so I was like, okay, cool. Well, maybe I could do it in fitness. And so I went and did that part time. And so I got that self, not self-funded, sorry, government funded for me to do my first initial fitness certifications. And then at the same time, a friend from school was working at a gym called Virgin Active. And I’d started to go there because Tom had encouraged me to kind of do these things. And so
I asked them whether I could do like my hours there and like, yeah, so that was again, it was very easy. And then when we’re traveling for a period of time, but when I got back before I even returned, they called me and they said, Hey, do you want a job when you get back? So yeah great. So I never even went back into the performing arts industry because kind of that all happened in such quick succession. didn’t really have a choice. So again, life just kind of like guiding you in that direction. And then they actually funded my PT. So I never actually pay for any of my fitness qualifications, which is amazing.
Emma (16:07)
And then immediately group fitness was my baby. I was a PT for a bit, but that was hard on me, as you know, just too empathetic, too much people stuff in your stuff. So I was, yeah, I wasn’t very good at protecting my energy those days. I’m a bit better now. so yeah, group fitness was my calling. And I guess they say the rest is history. But yeah, so I think yes and no. Yes, I…
Emma (16:37)
I was guided there. It wasn’t a pivotal moment. There was a series of moments that I followed to get to where I wanted to go. Yeah. And guess I still do that. I still do that now. Just walk and trust and walk and trust and yeah.
Vanessa (16:53)
That’s so good. No, I think it’s really important. It’s important for me to have people who are coming back on the podcast regularly. you know, I’m a little bit different. you know, I was six months old and I had my first swimming lesson and I haven’t stopped moving since. So I’m a bit of an alien, you know what mean? For a normal person because exercise, can’t.
Vanessa (17:21)
Like literally have not ever lived without it, but I know I’m not the norm. So your story is very much more relatable because I think a lot of people go through school like that. I remember watching the girls at high school hating the sport that like I would just jump into and be like, yeah, I’ll throw a ball or I’ll, you know, put someone, my elbow in someone while I’m playing netball or whatever. I’ll just get involved just cause I had a lot of energy, but that’s not.
That’s not most people’s experience with exercise. And I think that when you talk about the feeling of exercise and how you stepped into that cycle class because, or you stepped into wanting to teach it because you wanted to perform and make people feel things, that just makes me feel so happy because that’s exactly, that’s exactly what happens when I step into a class that you teach. I feel things and I don’t notice my body.
Vanessa (18:15)
It’s almost like that’s the secondary element. I can step out of my body and just enjoy the experience and what’s happening around me. And that’s what I want to see more of personally in the industry. And I know that that’s your mission as well. So your story makes me really happy because I think that it’s way more relatable than me for sure. It’s hard. It is.
Emma (18:38)
Because fitness is hard, right, for most people. And we’re not getting 80 % of the Australian population, at least. I think that’s similar to global stats. We’re not getting those people moving. And yet, I’ve just recently been to a fitness conference. There’s still not enough talk about how we’re getting those people moving. It’s like, it’s still the same old, same old. How can we use AI? How can we change our marketing? How can we be better at social media ads? But I’m like, you’re still talking to the 20%. You need to start to change direction in it. You need to 180.
to start to speak to the 80 % of people that are intimidated, that don’t like sport, that think exercise is boring, that would rather, far rather, go do anything else other than go move their bodies in that way until you show them that there’s another way. And that actually they can step into this space and it’s as good as going to a music concert. It’s as good as going to the theatre. It’s good as going to see Beyonce. You can have those kind of visceral reactions going to a fitness class, but if you don’t know that, you don’t know that. You have to…
Emma (19:37)
you have to be given a chance. And that chance comes from creating non-intimidating environments that aren’t focusing on people’s insecurities. When you do that, then maybe those people are going to come through your doors, give you a little try, and then go, holy shit, this was not what I was expecting at all. Like you said, I didn’t even notice I was working out. I had so much fun. I wasn’t even thinking about how many calories I burned. I was just smiling the whole time or crying or, you know, like sometimes…
Emma (20:04)
it’s not smiling, sometimes it is crying, it’s an emotional release, but it’s what people need because we bottle up so much, you know, and we don’t let ourselves feel. And so, yeah, I feel extremely lucky that every day I get to create these experiences for people that firstly help them feel things, but also maybe take people that had never exercised before and show them that they can actually love exercise if you give them the right environment.
Vanessa (20:29)
Yeah, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. fitness shouldn’t feel like a chore. Sometimes it does, you know, like you’re not going to get a hundred percent motivation all the time. Exactly. But it can be hard to walk into and you walk into it knowing that I walk into this because I know I’m going to feel better afterwards. And it’s those words, know, we consistently hear people say those things, but I don’t know if they actually.
Emma (20:40)
It can be hard.
Vanessa (21:01)
understand the gravity of that. When so many things in our life bring us down and divert our energy and drain it, you walk out of something and you feel better. That’s like, it’s massive. Like it’s such a big deal and that’s what needs to be celebrated more.
Emma (21:19)
That’s life-changing, right? That saves people’s lives. Like if we go, you know, far onto one end of the spectrum, that really is, it’s helping people either not need or like help modify a medication. Like when it comes to depression and anxiety, it’s helping people regulate their emotions, regulate their nervous systems. Like I don’t think people realize that we are in like a stress epidemic, you know? Like we are so highly stressed. We’re over-breathing, we’re overworking, we’re overstressed.
Emma (21:49)
And people don’t, I think, understand the seriousness of that. That’s really affecting people’s lives in big ways, like their life spans, know, their quality of life. And yeah, okay, it’s not something we can immediately see right there and there, like even perhaps weight gain, but, or a disease, but those things can manifest if we continue along that line, right? So we have to start finding ways to de-stress, to regulate our nervous systems. And this is one of the most perfect ways to do it. Yeah.
So I just, think more emphasis needs to be placed on getting, getting our countries, our world moving in a way that feels good as opposed to keep focusing on the other.
Vanessa (22:27)
Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned, you started initially not necessarily having a great relationship with your, your weight and your, and your body over the years, what have been some of your challenges in health and fitness that you feel like, I know where you’re at the moment, but that you feel like you’re overcoming or you’ve overcome in that time.
Emma (22:53)
Oh, my relationship with my body has been awful. Like, I think it starts at a young age for most of us because, and this is no blame on anybody’s parents or my own, but they were brought up in a generation where there was such a huge focus, right? So all I can really remember of my mother was her dieting. You know, like she was always on weight watches, Slimming World, always down if she put on weight, happy if she’d lost it. It was always a constant focus.
And so I think growing up, there was such an emphasis on my own weight and how mine could also fluctuate. And then we lost my dad when I was 10. And that just caused both me and my mom to severely overeat. Like we ate our feelings to the max, you know, like we would get up in the middle of the night and make a sandwich and be together because we were trying to find love and comfort in each other. And that was a beautiful thing, but it did mean that we both put on weight. And that was a really…
crappy age for me to do that, because I was like 10 going on 11, like, you know, beginning of senior school or whatever you call it here, high school. And so, it wasn’t a great time for me to then not feel the ramifications of that when it comes to, you know, kids’ comments and things I was even getting cast in in school plays or comments from dance teachers. God, it just never stopped, really. Just so awful. And then you think about the TV that we were watching when we were growing up, and, know, there’s lots of…
reels and things that go on about it now, know, the comments in movies and I only again watched Love Actually the other night and was like, my god, they do mention it a lot. Hey, like you forget now that I’m so hyper aware of body positivity and the way that we should talk to people and I eat this, it’s insane amount of movies and song lyrics and you know, it was totally okay to comment on people’s weight and
So that generation, I think still are a little bit stuck in that. I think every now and again, you still hear those comments from the slightly older generation around people’s body weight or making it a really big deal. Like I see lots of women, it’d be their main focus and it’s always grabbing at that body and getting really down on themselves around even small fluctuations in weight. And so that just was really hard on me growing up. And I have got a body shape and size that
Emma (25:11)
has incredibly long, lean legs and arms, but I do store body weight around my waist. I didn’t, you know, we’re not educated that everybody is different and that everybody can store fat in different ways. And some people are naturally lean and some people are naturally larger and you’re not educated on that, right? You’re just completely always just comparing yourself to your friends, the people you see on movies and televisions. so, yeah, crappy relationship anyway. Then I put myself in an environment which was drama school. Good one,
Which, you know, actually came out fairly unscathed. I had really good friends and I know a lot of my fellow friends of my year ended up with very bad eating disorders coming out the back end of college. I wasn’t too bad at that point. What hit me over the edge was then going into the industry professionally and I, particularly that cruise ship contract, I ended up, you know, with an eating disorder. would, I’d make myself sick. I would limit my calories.
intake, I would starve myself some days. I would remember being so hungry, sometimes just eating little slivers of fruit whilst trying to maintain two shows a night and training in the morning. And I was excessively exercising too. I was using exercise as an outlet to burn calories. would swim in the morning, weight train, go to a spin class, then do my two shows. So no wonder that I lost so much weight. And that kind of came with me as I…
went home and I obviously desperately then didn’t want to lose it because then you’re looking in the mirror and seeing this version of you you think you prefer. Although I will say to everyone listening that you never ever are happy and anybody that suffered with an ED will know that. It’s not like you suddenly get to a goal weight and you’re like, yay, I’m done. Like you just continue to still put pressure on yourself even around, know, and at that point you’re not really seeing your real body, right? You’ve got friends telling you that you’re too skinny or you’ve lost too much weight and you just think that they’re.
they’re lying or they’re jealous or whatever you create the story in your mind at the time. I can’t tell you a pivotal point where it started to super get better. I think it was a moment where I had to let it go because I went traveling. It was that period of my life where I kind of quit the performing industry knowing it wasn’t healthy for me. So guess I had that awareness and I went backpacking for a year around the world. And I think that just that separation from the industry
Emma (27:32)
being around different cultures and just having to eat the food that was there and not really having a choice. And I guess my world not focusing on body weight just kind of helped recalibrate slightly, was like maybe I sort of pressed the reset button. So I think it’s one of the best things I ever did was just getting away. And so from there, things started to get better. But of course, I come back, enter the fitness industry.
And the problem is that the fitness industry isn’t much better. I think we’ve exchanged skinny for strong, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t this kind of like whole heap of pressure to look like a woman’s health model. They still only really project six-pack abs and really muscular-defined low-body fat women as this idea of the perfect health and fit body. And so actually, my real awareness came from when I met my partner.
And he used to work for a company called PH360, which I know Vanessa is also, we’ve worked together with and we’ve done their course and all sorts of things. And long story short, I don’t need to go into exactly what they do, but it’s a company that understand the genetics of a human and what that means for not only what you look like, but also your behaviours. And it’s an amazing, fascinating course and company.
Basically what that did, long story short there, was just showed me, okay, hang on. Healthy and fit does not look like this. Healthy and fit can look like whatever you need it to look like on your body because we all store weight in different places. We all store muscle in different ways. We all lose and subtract muscle and fat in different ways. And it’s not one size fits all. Even though still half of my Instagram feed would have you think differently, you know? Laugh at the thought that could possibly be genetics. Well, it is genetics.
And it’s not saying that genetics is an excuse to be unhealthy or obese. And I think this is a really important yet, I guess, nuance take, which is that body positivity, which is definitely something I am an advocate for, doesn’t mean it’s an excuse to be lazy or to sit on the couch and assume no responsibility on your life. It’s about, hang on, okay.
Emma (29:49)
can be positive about my body and where I’m at right now and love my body where I am right now and want to be the best version of me. That’s not just physically, that’s mentally and emotionally as well, right? Like who doesn’t want to be the best version of themselves? We only got one small life, let’s make it the best. And so body positivity for me and what this kind of genetic information taught me is that we all have differences because of genes and therefore we all probably have limitations.
because of our genes and also strengths. And it’s about playing to those strengths and understanding what is the best version of health and fit on me? What could the best version of me look like, feel like, perform like, have a job as, you know, all of those things. And so that was a real eye opener for me because suddenly I was like, okay, yeah, see genetically I have very slim legs that don’t really put on weight. I have long levers and long arms that are very delicate and small. have long fingers.
I have expressive ones too, me and Vanessa. But I do store weight here and I know why now without going into the depths of it. I have a large rib cage. I have endomorphic, not tendencies, strains and parts of my genetic makeup. And so where that’s strong is that I’m loving and kind and this will not make sense unless you have the course. I have these beautiful qualities where I thrive off oxytocin and I like to bring people together.
Emma (31:15)
of social glue and my body is a byproduct of that, you know, of those hormones and of those, you know, that specific set of hormones of, of my genetic makeup is, and that’s really special because now I go, okay, I might not look like that person, but I’m me. And this is the expression of me is really cool because this is what I’m unique and this is what I bring to the world. But I want to make myself the healthiest version of that. So I am kind to it. You know, I put in.
the water intake I need to have a day, I put in nutritious organic foods, I get enough sleep when I can. All of those things I know that are gonna make me the best version of myself. And then what happens is like this magical thing. When you start to treat your body like you love it, suddenly, and I couldn’t tell you the day or week when, but you start to look at it you start to love it more, and you start to judge it less. And I think it’s a very…
slow process that you might not be able to understand exactly when the start and finish of it is. But if you keep showing up for yourself in that way, what is going to be good for my body? How can I show it love? How can I look in the mirror and appreciate it? How can I move my body because I love it? How can I da-da-da-da-da-da? And then every day you look in the mirror and you’re like, oh, actually, I didn’t spend so much time loading myself today. That’s interesting. And I think it’s just a journey that I will continue on. And some days are better than others.
others. But I think I’m in a really good space. I certainly don’t do any of the crazy, you know, not crazy, but sad things that I did to myself through ED. And, you know, anyone that’s suffering with that, feel you. And I think there is an end point to the journey. And I think it does start with just kind of like reframing your mindset around what your body should be and start appreciating it for what it is, and all the things that it does for you. And then from there, it’s daily
daily practice of showing up with love and gratitude and some days will be easier than others but if you just keep showing up eventually yeah you start to realize that perhaps you’re like repeating some of those old habits.
Vanessa (33:26)
I’m take a breath before that. No, thank you for sharing that.
Vanessa (33:34)
I’ve heard your story, we’ve known each other for a really long time, but that…
watching you on the journey and hearing where you are now is so… it’s emotional for me. Like, I see you’ve come so far and it’s incredible. It’s such a great… it’s so great to see. So thank you. Love that.
Emma (34:00)
Yeah, I guess that’s why, you know, that I do what I do, because I want other people to be able to come on this journey with me. think so many, I’ll say women, but I think it’s men too, are in the same position. You know, we’ve all been through the same stuff. And I’m always really careful to mention that these things aren’t just for people that maybe suffer with…
weight gain. This is also for people that are naturally very small. And I think it’s always really important to mention that, that they can actually go through really similar journeys where they’ve been bullied for being skinny. And then they’ve never been able to put on weight. And they find it hard to put on muscle. So they feel really weak. then they judge for those things. And then it’s almost like the same feelings, but from a different side of the coin. Yeah. I think it’s
Emma (34:50)
I like to mention that because I’ve had lots of conversations with very naturally small people and they’ve also felt the same way, but from a different side. And I think they’re not talked about as much. So I think it’s important to mention that. So then if you take both sides of the coin, that’s probably majority of women that have experienced these issues at some point in their life. And I know I told a similar story at a conference a month or so ago and asked,
people to raise their hand if they’d ever had any of these feelings or thoughts about their body and every person in the room put their hand up. But we’re not talking about it. It’s still like, you know, everyone, you know, just gets on with their lives and aren’t really talking about the fact that we’re all suffering in this way around that body image and the way that we feel about ourselves. And it’s really sad. It’s really sad really, right? Because like we’re all just human, having a human experience with, you know, actually very different vessels. don’t know anybody that has a body like me.
Emma (35:46)
I don’t know anybody that has a body exactly like you, know, like we’re all so different. And yet we’re trying to switch ourselves in this imaginary non-existent ideal of perfection. Yeah, I hope it starts to shift. I think it is. But the more that we have these conversations, right, I think the more that we can create awareness around it.
Vanessa (36:06)
Yeah, such important conversations because like you said, we want it to be about the feeling of fitness and to make it more about the feeling we have to overcome that, you know, the should, the expectation, the constant messaging that we hear from the other side of the fence saying that you’re not good enough, that the way that you are isn’t the right way. And like you said, that doesn’t mean you stop trying to be better.
but you do it in a way that is, that makes you feel good rather than you’re punishing yourself. yeah, I, I love that message and I’m so excited that you’re here to share that. thank you. Yeah. So last, last couple of questions. Well, let’s go into it. when I say movement therapy,
Vanessa (37:05)
What does that mean to you?
Emma (37:07)
I think it’s, I guess it’s a combination of everything we’ve spoken about today, but I think movement therapy is the fact that we can have the same, maybe even better, ooh, don’t shoot me, therapists, result from the way that we move, the way that we breathe. I think we can have such a positive mental outcome from going to a 45-minute class.
that it is like therapy, right? It’s why I named my business that. So I think that’s what movement therapy is. It’s the fact that we can now heal, whether that’s mentally, physically, emotionally, we can now heal through other ways and typical, you know, turning up to a psychologist office and going for talk therapy and not discounting that there’s such strength in that, but there are other ways. And I think these other ways could potentially be even more accessible.
to people that feel intimidated or feel like they don’t want to go to a psychologist or a counsellor, maybe then try a fitness class and see how that feels. And maybe you’ll start to realize that that’s a modality that can work for you. Obviously, if you’re super suffering and there’s lots of deep things going on for you, then obviously you must seek a professional. But I think there’s so much benefit in using exercise as a tool for mental health.
that it should definitely be a recommendation from GPs, from therapists as well to work alongside their therapy as well.
Vanessa (38:47)
Very, yeah, great, great explanation. I am going to put this one out to the listener because I, you know, I’ve, I’ve taught group exercise. I love group exercise, but I have really come back to, I don’t want to call it my roots, but what, what I know I tend to be pretty good at, which is working one-on-one with people or in a very small group and being able to change their body.
Vanessa (39:15)
in some way, shape or form. Now you have experienced this, literally, hands on, from me doing some work with you. If you had to explain…
hands-on movement therapy or a PT session. I don’t want to call it a PT session, but I don’t really have a better word to describe it at this stage.
What do you think that does to a body or how did you feel during a session like that?
Emma (39:43)
I think it’s just personalized, isn’t it? It’s personalized. It’s the ability, well, I think first of all, hands-on is so magical, right? We can, again, from a WooWoo perspective, being able to be with a body and actually feel the intricate movement or the tiny corrections that you can make and see what effect that has, that’s something you can’t do in a large group fitness class, right?
It’s just a different modality, right? Like I think when you can work with somebody one-on-one, you can understand the energy, you can ask for constant feedback verbally. And so it’s ultimately personalized. Whereas obviously in a group setting, you can’t be personalized to that degree. You can offer things that can make it feel personalized and be the best coach you can be for a group environment and offer moments of one-on-one, but you can never be as intricate and…
I guess, in sync with your participant as you can when you’re in one-on-one environment.
Vanessa (40:46)
And that’s a great breakdown of it. And I think to me, I’ve always been someone who has flirted with both lanes and that’s been uncommon because I just, to me, they make sense. know, I need time for me. I want to work on what’s important. What’s, know, I don’t understand this aspect of my body. need to seek a professional to help me figure out what that is. But when you go to a group,
Vanessa (41:16)
They’re so, it’s so different. It’s so different and it’s so special in a completely different way. And we’re social creatures and we need that so much. And yeah, I just, I wanted to just, you know, let people know you’re not doing a bad thing if you’re just doing, you know, group and you’re not doing a bad thing if you’re just doing one-on-one, but if you’ve never tried any of like any either side.
Vanessa (41:41)
you know, switch lanes for a little bit and give it a try and see what you get from it. Because I think that that’s what movement therapy is about. It’s about trying things to, for betterment in your body to help you feel better. and I just think that both are so ultimately powerful.
Emma (41:59)
Agreed, agreed, agreed. And I think that you’re right. They do both go hand in hand and why not both, right? Like if you’ve got the, I guess, finances and the space and time, then they’re both going to give you such different magic, right? Because especially another thing that just came to my mind is if you’re struggling with anything specific, that’s where one-on-one can help so well as well. Like, I don’t know how to execute this movement. I don’t know how it should feel in my body. Now, sometimes a group fitness instructor might be able to help you, but I think that’s where
Emma (42:29)
One-on-one can be so much more magical because they can help you specifically help you get that specific skill within your body, right? So they’re going to have the time and the patience and all of those things to be able to work with you at your own pace. So yeah, that’s another really great reason to work one-on-one in a space for sure.
Vanessa (42:51)
Now I’m running out of time, but I will ask you one more question. What do you want to talk about? What do you think are the most, you know, the forefront issues, not issues, forefront topics that come to your mind that you want to talk about that you want people to understand that we’re going to dive into when I see you next in the next month and a bit. What do you, what do you tell me where we’re going? Give us a teaser.
Emma (43:15)
Well, I feel like we need to talk about breath work because it’s a very powerful modality and it comes so beautifully into this subject lane, which is the therapy lane, right? And I guess segues from what we just spoke about as that, know, typical like psychology based therapy doesn’t have to always be the modality for healing. So I think breath work would be a beautiful subject to touch upon and the magic that that brings.
What I love about it, which I know you will love about it, is it kind of like brings the absolute science and the woo together in this really beautiful way because it is backed inside so much research and, you know, I guess time and energy has been put into understanding the power of breath from a physiological standpoint, but also there is so much unknown magic that lies behind it as well.
which I just think is really freaking cool. I mean, that’s why also we need to talk about music because the same thing, right? There’s lots of science and data that we can read about and study when it comes to the power of music. But then there’s also a lot of this stuff that’s like, I guess it’s because of this, but we don’t really know. And I just love that shit because it’s like, ooh, there’s so much science, but there’s also this element of like magic just above it. And I think that’s…
Emma (44:46)
something very exciting to me because that for me is what life is, right? It’s like, yes, there’s so much science behind life, but there’s also a lot of magic that we don’t understand or we can’t see. And so anything that combines those two things gets me really, really passionate.
Vanessa (45:02)
I’m so excited. I love, you know I’m keen. I’m very keen. That is the cue for you listener to message us. Which one would you like to hear? But that is all we have time for this week. Thank you so much Emma for your time. We appreciate you. I appreciate you and I love you lots. And we’ll see you next time.
Emma (45:13)
Yes, let us know.
Emma (45:25)
I appreciate you. Love you.
Vanessa Leone Movement Therapist 