The Overlooked Key to Longevity and Health: Your Feet! With Dr. Emily Splichal
Summary
Dr. Emily Splichal discusses the importance of foot health and its impact on stability, posture, and overall movement. She explains the foot’s role in energy transfer, shock absorption, and balance, emphasizing the benefits of barefoot training. Dr. Splichal highlights the deep front fascial line’s connection from the feet to the core and diaphragm, advocating for intentional foot engagement in exercises. She also promotes Naboso recovery socks and toe spacers for foot stimulation and realignment. Finally, she stresses a gradual transition to barefoot shoes and shares her passion for ballroom dancing as a therapeutic movement practice.
Transcript
Vanessa Leone (00:01)
Hello, it’s Vanessa here and I am so glad to introduce to you Dr. Emily Splichal Hi Emily, how are you?
Dr Emily (00:10)
I’m doing amazing, thank you.
Vanessa Leone (00:13)
Now, we love a time zone difference, so I really thank you for jumping on today. We managed to make it work. I’m gonna launch straight into my first question, because I was driving here, and I was really thinking about this paradox of what you do. People, when we think about feet, I know a lot of my clients, a lot of people, they don’t really think about feet or a foot until there’s something wrong with their feet or foot. So…
For someone listening who doesn’t have anything wrong with their feet or foot, what would you say to them that encourages them to actually take a look and be like, your foot’s important. What do you say to that person?
Dr Emily (01:00)
Yeah, so I think definitely creating a layer of appreciation is the first step in prioritizing your foot health, making your foot health part of your fitness or your movement story, your longevity story is you do have to have an appreciation to this area of the body that’s hidden in our shoes. But if you think about it, our foot is the only contact point between the body and the ground. It is our foundation. So when we stand up, it’s really our base of support.
That’s essentially what it does is it is our literal foundation to our skeletal posture. It is a very important sensory gateway. So the skin in the bottom of the foot has thousands of nerves and these nerves are designed to read the surface that we’re walking on. Of course you put on shoes. So talking about footwear is really important as far as foot health. There are 26 muscles in the bottom of the foot. So small muscles in the bottom of the foot, which fascinatingly connect to your deep core and to your diaphragm and to your tongue. So I try to help build an appreciation by giving some fun facts about the foot so that people become curious and then start to incorporate little tiny daily habits to release the feet, wake up the feet, strengthen the feet. And then from a fitness perspective, when people start to do that and they notice the effect, then there’s an easier buy-in to the rest of the story.
Vanessa Leone (02:24)
Cool, very cool. So let’s continue down that journey then. What is a healthy foot? How does it function? What does it do?
Dr Emily (02:34)
Yes, your healthy foot is designed, really it’s around walking. So walking is the most foundational functional movement that we do every day. And in order to walk the right way, your foot, your foundation, has to be able to do three things. And it has to be able to balance. So you have to be able to stabilize on one foot. That means that your foot is really a tripod.
So you’re able to distribute your weight evenly. Our foot actually has a posture to it, so foot posture. Our digits, our toes play a really important role in balance, stability, energy transfers. You have to have strength and alignment in your digits. So that’s that first function. Second one is every time we walk and you strike the ground, you are experiencing impact forces. And those impact forces or ground reaction forces is actually your body’s energy to take your next step.
So you have to be able to absorb the impact and store it in your body as energy so you can release it as elastic energy when you take a step or you run and you jump or you do something fascinating. So your foot has an ability to be a shock absorber. And then third is really it’s energy transfer. that is our foot is designed to have this catapult effect or a rigid lever effect.
Now, if you think of the foot in like a high heel position or if any of the listeners, you do like a calf raise and you look at your foot in a calf raise position, that’s called a rigid lever. And that is a very, very unique position that the human foot can achieve and other animal’s feet cannot achieve that position. So it’s very unique to how we relate to energy transfer. That’s how you take a step. That’s how you jump. That’s how you run. So those are the three things. So balance, shock absorption,
Rigid Lever for Energy Transfer. That’s a strong foot.
Vanessa Leone (04:29)
That’s cool. I love the detail when we talk about the human body and we talk about things like energy transfer and catapulting us forward, we forget how much work actually goes into just keeping us functioning in something as simple as walking when we don’t even think about it. I think that’s part of, sometimes that’s part of the problem, right, is that we take something as simple as walking for granted, yeah?
Dr Emily (04:54)
Yes, most people do. But it’s not really just can you walk, are you walking, can you go across the room, right? You’re hitting the baseline minimum. But we really are supposed to be walking a certain way. And when I say walking a certain way, we’re supposed to be walking a certain pace. And most people actually do not walk the way that we’ve evolved to walk, which is fast enough. You take these long strides that…
Dr Emily (05:21)
really wind up your T-spine and your pelvis. You create this oppositional joint coupling or decoupling really between the rib cage and the pelvis. And then when you take a step, you do the opposite motion. And you’re essentially doing this back and forth between your pelvis and your T-spine, which is hydrating to your spine. It’s loading your fascial slings. It’s actually activating the circulatory pumps.
Really interesting research studies that show that you have to walk at a certain pace to get blood from your feet to your brain to stimulate brain derived neuro growth factor, is brain protective or cognitive protective. So it’s really not just, you walk, but are you able to maintain the ideal walking speed for longevity? And that speed is a little bit different per person. So it’s not just, you know, can you walk at a certain
Dr Emily (06:16)
you know, a 15 minute mile or whatever it would be, right?
Vanessa Leone (06:19)
So obviously then I’m going to assume it would come into things like height and like your limb length and stuff like that as well, right? Yeah, cool. That’s super interesting because I haven’t heard the science around the pace of your walk influencing that because obviously there’s a lot of research telling everybody how good walking is for you, but if you’re kind of like ambling, you’re saying that that’s potentially not necessarily going to give you as much of a benefit.
Dr Emily (06:26)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Right, so we need to walk fast enough so that you are in a fascial state. And you’ll know you’re in a fascial state when you fall into a state of momentum. And I often give this story to people and I’m teaching is that I lived in New York City for years, for 20 years. And anyone who’s traveled to a major city can get this as far as walking. And you’re walking fast enough, I walk very fast. My mamma taught me to walk very fast.
but I walk very fast and that I can tell as soon as I find my pace, my momentum, it feels like there’s suddenly this ease in how I’m walking and I can feel the series of falls that walking is and I have so much momentum being created that if I were to walk and someone were to cut me off, I’m like, I’m like a barreling right through you because I have so much momentum behind.
And it’s something that you can feel within your body when you hit that momentous state, right? And that’s what I encourage people to try to do to feel that is very different than walking muscularly or how we walk around our home, how we walk from the car to the grocery store and you know, that kind of walking is referred to as more like a staccatic right? Where it’s kind of right, these shallower stabs.
Vanessa Leone (08:08)
Very stagnant.
Dr Emily (08:10)
You’re not swinging your arms, right? We carry a lot of things. So you’re getting this unilateral or asymmetrical arm swing when we walk as well. And that’s also not good for overall walking pace, how you feed the fascial system and how you activate all these circulatory systems.
Vanessa Leone (08:27)
Love it. That’s super fascinating. Very cool. So one further question into that. talked about muscularly walking. So I think a lot of people wouldn’t really know the difference between like the muscular system and the fascial system. And I love fascia. I could talk about it all day. So in relation to walking, how would you describe the difference to someone?
Dr Emily (08:52)
Yeah. So I think an analogy that I like to use that maybe the listeners might appreciate is kettlebells. And do you do kettlebells with your clients? Okay. So for anyone who’s done kettlebells, there is a correct way to do a kettlebell swing. And then there’s the way that some people do the swing who don’t realize that it’s momentum. Where we know that we’re swinging the bell and you’re essentially riding the momentum, right? So you…
Vanessa Leone (09:02)
Love kettlebells. Super fun.
Dr Emily (09:21)
You’re not lifting the bell, lowering the bell, right? You’re swinging and then letting gravity take it and acceleration with gravity. And then you’re using that on the upswing, right? That is a good example of a momentous based movement that if you do it the right way, there’s more of a grace and a fascial fluidity to it, right? Your muscles are obviously still contracting and stuff like that, but it’s less lift, lower, lift.
That’s a muscular based movement to a method that is supposed to be momentous. Right? So it looks, it looks harsher or like the work expenditure is higher than it should be, which is very important. Right? So walking is supposed to be fascial by design. Walking is supposed to be very efficient, not burn a lot of calories and be fascial. This is by design.
So if someone is moving inefficiently, not with their fascial system, they’re fighting the ground and they’re muscularly contracting to get their limbs forward, it is very exhausting. They’re going to feel like walking from this room to that room is just like, so exhausting, right? When that’s not how walking is supposed to be. Now a lot of that has to do with your feet, has to do with your foot type.
Dr Emily (10:47)
Oftentimes overpronated flat feet will be working harder when they walk than a more neutral foot because they’re a little less stable. So that would be kind of an example on it, right? Anytime you are working muscularly, you are working harder than you should be. And that’s also where injuries come in.
Vanessa Leone (11:09)
Okay, we’re starting to hit some money spots here, I really like. Very cool, super fascinating start, that’s really interesting. And I personally, I’m a fast walker, like you, and it’s almost like when you’re in that fast walk, it’s so frustrating when someone’s in front of you who’s walking like slow and you’ve got to be like, you just broke my stride, like I’ve got to get around you now. So I feel, yeah, I definitely feel you.
Vanessa Leone (11:39)
so we talked about, healthy foot. You also talked about that your foot is linked to, your deep pelvic floor and your diaphragm and your tongue. So before we talk about kind of, you know, positions of the feet, cause I think this is really important is for people to understand that link. Like how does that link? Where are we going here?
Dr Emily (12:04)
Yes, so our feet, this is through fascia again, favorite word here, through fascia lines, your feet run through your lower leg into your deep hip joint, into your pelvic floor, into your diaphragm, up your neck to your tongue. It happens to be called your deep front fascia line. And specifically the part of the foot that it’s really accessed through is the toes. And the actions that the toes would do is that they would push down.
So when your toes anchor down, you’re actually contracting your long flexors, which because of fascial pathways, you’re incorporating your intrinsic muscles, the 26 muscles in the bottom of the foot, which is allowing you to access your pelvic floor. And then really you wanna be breathing a certain way, or you could do something with your tongue. So one way that I will teach people to do this is that,
every time you’re standing, let’s say you are about to do a squat or a bicep curl, right, pick one. We’ll do a bicep curl even though it’s not lower body. So I’m standing activated on my tripod, my toes are spread. I’m gonna push my toes into the ground every time I lift the dumbbell. Now, if you think of breathing during an exercise, we exhale during the positive or the concentric, right? So I’m gonna shh.
Here’s my exhale. You want the exhale to always stack with the foot contraction. So as I lift the bell, I’m exhaling, as I lift the bell and I exhale, I’m pushing my toes into the floor. I’m going to feel increased tension or stability in my deep core slash pelvic floor. For the listeners, I want to get really specific with it. It’s your posterior pelvic floor. So what you would do is as you’re lifting the bell and as you’re exhaling,
And as you’re pushing your toes in the ground, you’re going to lift your levator anii. So that’s a more focused, directed, kind of next level way of integrating it. Let’s say if instead of the breath focus, you wanted to do something a little bit different because we’re going to hold it like isometrically. So let’s say instead I’m going to do a push press.
and then I’m going to hold the weight on top and I’m just going to hold and hold this push press, holding an isometric. As I push up, sure, exhale, get it up, but as I’m holding it, I’m going to push my toes into the floor. I’m going to lift my levator, ani And I’m going to put my tongue and push it into my palate. Yeah. So then I’m maintaining that internal skeletal stability. It’s a soft tissue, fascial skeleton of stability.
from the ground up during the isometric hold, as an example, right? So those are two different ways in how you could do it. And it’s, I incorporate it into movement prep. I incorporate it into literally every single exercise, whether you are standing doing it, even if you’re against like a seated rowing machine, I would be doing that against the foot plate, whatever it is that you’re doing. You always want to be thinking about your feet. Even let’s say a pull-up. When I do pull-ups,
I am thinking about my feet and I’m engaging my foot muscles as hard as I can at the same time as my deep core because that’s what gives me the strength to do a pull-up versus dead from the shoulder down and using just pure lat strength to try to get the dead two thirds of my body down. That’s actually much harder to lift that way. And that’s really the power, that’s the power of the feet.
Vanessa Leone (15:46)
Wait to view, yeah.
Dr Emily (15:53)
but that’s the power of fascial tension or tensegrity is that you are stronger when you understand how to access fascial based strength versus just muscular based strength.
Vanessa Leone (16:07)
Yes, I would say that I’ve definitely felt this change. I’ve been lucky enough to have done lots of Emily’s work, courses, and followed her around conferences around the world and jumped into her sessions. And for me, and for anyone listening who’s hypermobile, I think this is like, not even more important, but it’s a super important point because…
Like if you use that squat example, Emily, how many people would you see in the gym, like lifting their toes because they’re trying to sit back into their heels and they’ve got this weight. So they’re almost like counterbalancing. You’re essentially saying that as soon as you’re lifting your toes, you’re not able to access your pelvic floor, your deep core as well as you would if you were able to ground down through your toes. Is that right?
Dr Emily (16:59)
Yeah. You know what, just to, make it interesting or I don’t know, call it what you want is, sometimes I will actually play with that, right? Because a lot of people do, but I think sometimes people lift their toes to shift their weight back. And then their toes are kind of like, they’re lifted, but they’re like, they’re passive where
Vanessa Leone (17:04)
They’re passive.
Dr Emily (17:29)
The way that I look at like strength and fashion, performance, and just, you know, this whole, I’m just fascinated with this human side of things is that there has to be intent behind what you do. So sometimes I will intentionally just be like, huh, I wonder if I extend my digits, right? But I am like, like that shit’s engaged, right? And then I’m like, yeah.
Dr Emily (17:58)
because when you do something like that and I activate part of my lower leg into my quad, when your quad contracts, you can get some TVA in there. So as long as you’re really like driving it, I would challenge people though to compare, let’s say if you’re doing a deadlift and no, no, deadlift would be a bad example, sorry. Deadlift you got to do it. Sorry.
Vanessa Leone (18:26)
You
Dr Emily (18:28)
Bad example. Toes down on a deadlift. Let’s just say squat. Let’s just say a squat just as an example, Actually, no, no, let’s go do a bicep curl. Sorry. Let’s do a bicep curl again. We’re doing a bicep curl. So you’re lifting your toes up and you’re doing your bicep curl. So you are creating tension. And then to compare that to pushing the toes down during the curl, right? And
Dr Emily (18:56)
I could see it be like there’s tension or there’s tension. The tension with the toes down is a pathway that’s more inherently pelvic floor based, I guess, and like posterior pelvic floor based. Because your toes are connected into your posterior pelvic floor.
Vanessa Leone (19:15)
at the back of the body for everybody right back back at the pelvic floor yeah
Dr Emily (19:17)
Yeah, back of the bum, yes.
And then your posterior pelvic floor, which is your levator, ani is myofascial incorporated into your deep sacral fibers of your glute max. So that’s why, like on a deadlift, you want to be toes down, toes anchoring into the ground, because theoretically you’re trying to get your backside activated, right? So I want to get into the posterior pelvic floor to get more stability and strength in the glutes.
Vanessa Leone (19:46)
Yeah, it gives you a little bit more stability around that lumbar spine than I’m assuming as well, which is also generally important for people who are lifting heavy. But that’s a really cool point, like you said, so intentional tension through your feet is more important than just floppy.
Dr Emily (20:01)
Yes.
Yes. And I just, that’s why I just like, if you’re going to do something, you can do it. But this is in life in general too. This applies to everything.
Vanessa Leone (20:13)
Ha ha!
I like it. I like it. Very
cool. Now, you talked about the receptors under the toes. Lots of nerves. So not only is the fascial side of stuff helping to stabilize us, but we’re also getting a lot of information. Could you maybe explain to us the difference? Say, you know, I’ll go to the gym and I’ll watch people squat and deadlift and they take their shoes off.
Vanessa Leone (20:45)
but then for everything else that they do, they keep their shoes on. What do you think about this phenomenon?
Dr Emily (20:53)
Yeah, so I mean, I’m a huge advocate of barefoot training. I want to say barefoot, mean, no socks either. So that is very, very important. Where I lift, I will see some people take off their shoes, but then always leave their socks on. And I’m like, yay, like at least you’re in the direction that I want you to be. But there’s something about getting even the sock off and stimulating all of the mechanoceptors of the touch nerves in the bottom of the foot.
And just think about if you had like mittens or gloves on your hands, like just compare with and without like it is a difference, right? And do we acclimate having socks on? Sure. But you’re acclimating to not all of the sensory stimulation that you could be getting to really create the optimal stabilization, power, et cetera. So yes, I think that if you’re going to do it, whether it’s a lower body exercise,
or even we were just giving examples of bicep curls or a military press, that’s still a foot exercise because everything is a foot exercise, right? It’s almost like everything is a core exercise. It’s part of what it is, right? I understand if certain gyms don’t allow that, but so maybe they allow the sock. Okay, great. Love it, get it, right? Could you incorporate something like a Naboso sock? Not to do a shameless plug on my own products.
but the Naboso socks that have a texture on the inside, that’s the inside of the sock, then you’re at least getting some stimulation to your foot, right? To really feel the foot and to really activate it and feel the tripod. I just know that when I do, like let’s say deadlifts as an example, I love deadlifting, so I’ll talk about those all day if I could, is my feet are so, I’m barefoot.
are so suctioned to the Olympic lifting platform that they’re just like little geckos on the floor. And I’m just like, my gosh, I have so much activation of my feet that if I had a sock, I would just feel like I’d be sliding in the sock because there’s no traction on the wood. Or if I was in my shoe, same thing. I wouldn’t be getting the traction because I’m against the inside of this in the shoe, right?
Dr Emily (23:21)
So there is something about just having skin to surface. And then that’s where that stabilization is going to come from.
Vanessa Leone (23:29)
Very cool. Needn’t have to do a shameless plug because that was exactly where I was going to go next. Shamelessly plug. This is really interesting. I will put it out there. I’m in no way affiliated with Naboso as a monetary thing. I’m an avid user and an avid…
Dr Emily (23:35)
Okay, there we go. There you go.
Vanessa Leone (23:52)
referrer to your products because they’re amazing and they make a huge difference and you just pulled up the first one which is a recovery sock. I started using these a couple of years ago I think when you first when you first took them out brought them out and honestly like they’re they’re so cool like I liken this to my mother who always had those you know those like slip-on shoes with the little pointy things in them it’s like that but better because you don’t have to like
Vanessa Leone (24:21)
hold on to the shoe. And for me, they, I’ve gone through some weird, interesting foot things, maybe we’ll have time for that. But for me, just as a general, like I’m on my feet all day, like putting them on around the house is like, it’s like a little massage for my feet. So what do recovery socks do? What do they promote? What, like, what is recovery about them?
Dr Emily (24:45)
Yeah, so for those that may not be familiar with Naboso I’ll show this off again. All of the products, not just the socks, had these little tiny triangles or pyramids on them. We actually have a patent around that texture and those little pyramids are stimulating the nerves in the bottom of the feet and these nerves manage foot awareness, right? So you just feel your feet, you wake them up. So that’s part of what our products do. They…
Massage so that you could think of them like a mini massage So it’s helping to recover the 26 muscles in the bottom of the feet your plantar fascia Obviously the different tendons and then texture has been shown to increase circulation and circulation is a very important part of Recovery and then here obviously we’re talking about foot recovery So if you could at the end of the day slide on a sock and just literally do what you’re gonna do anyway around your home I mean to me that’s that’s like a win-win right and
I’m a true believer in small little consistent habits that you do now, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, so that when you are in your 60s, 70s, 80s, that you have had this chronicity, like years of healthy habits that have been part of your lifestyle that is now showing the effect of high quality of life, 60s, 70s, 80s, et cetera, right?
I very much so want to protect the micro circulation to every structure in my feet just because I’m obsessed with feet. I want to have very healthy feet for as long as I can. And it’s something where you’re saying like, okay, I’m doing this every day. Even if you wear these for 30 minutes every day, you’re like, it’s almost like I brush my teeth and I floss. Like that’s literally how I want people to be thinking about their foot health. So that it’s just little baby thing adds up over time.
So that is honestly one of the easiest products to incorporate and one of, I guess that I’m the proudest behind the innovation of it of how it could help people easily incorporate foot health.
Vanessa Leone (26:53)
Yeah, it’s a super smart product because I think that there can be a lot of resistance for people when you’re like, foot health, like what? I don’t have to do foot exercises now and they feel like there’s this kind of barrier, but that for me is such a great tool because it…
You know, there’s no barrier. My partner puts them in, like he does a short morning walk and he puts them in when he does his short morning walks and he loves it because he can really feel his feet moving around, like feel so much more and I think it’s really simple. Like that’s so great.
Dr Emily (27:29)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just have learned through 12 years plus as a clinician of just understanding compliance and how people prioritize things, right? And if things are not easy, more barrier or friction or whatnot towards creating a healthy habit, right? It’s kind of like, so bad at drinking water. That will be my thing. That will like, that is my admitted.
.
Dr Emily (27:59)
I’m a health nut and that’s where I suck at health. My water, my water’s down here, not here, right? So already I’m not going to be drinking it because it’s in my bag, not on my desk. But having something where you have, you bring your water with you, right? Now there’s less friction. It’s on your desk. You take the top off. Like that’s making a healthy habit frictionless to increase the compliance, the consistency for one of your clients, right?
Dr Emily (28:29)
or for me, clearly I need to practice that. That’s how I think about foot health as well, is that it has to be that easy for people to do it. And it’s just understanding human nature, right?
Vanessa Leone (28:29)
100%.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The next one that I love to talk about, you can see mine are like super well worn. I think a lot of people like, yeah, wear these all the time. have gone into the toe spacers. Yours are called splay. and I think the biggest, like I’d love to know how you want people to wear them, what they’re good for. But like I see people trying to put this on and then
Vanessa Leone (29:09)
pop themselves in a conventional shoe and have some pretty negative side effects. So can you just talk about like, know, what is this product? What are we doing with it?
Dr Emily (29:20)
Yes, yes. And we need to get you some new ones, Vanessa. Look, these look like little jewels now. These are the Naboso Splay Toe Spacers. so toe spacers are actually really, really trendy right now in the foot health space. A lot of pro athletes will use them, celebrities, everyone is gaga for these things. But what you do is you slide them on your feet.
Dr Emily (29:48)
So you just slide them in, kind of think like that between the inner spaces. And you’re spreading, opening, lengthening your toes all at the same time. Great form of recovery. We tell people to wear these end of the day, 15 minutes, start 15 minutes, right? And just get a little bit of an opening, a stretch, a splay of the toes, increase that circulation. If you have bunions, hammertoes, neuromas, this is a good like, right? Or if you wear shoes all day and they’re a little bit tighter, right? Take that relief.
However, you can, specifically with the Naboso ones, you can wear these in your shoes. You can wear these walking around, you can wear these working out. If you do have these on your feet, which is gonna make them open up, then your shoe does have to be a little bit wider. So you would need to use more of a minimal style shoe, like an Ultra, a Vivo, a Zero, pick a different brand, just to accommodate them.
So they can be worn in shoes if you pick the appropriate shoes. They can be worn all day, every day. We have many people who do that. They could be used when doing yoga, Pilates, barefoot workouts, great. They could be done just 15 minutes end of the day. So it depends on how you want to use them. But these are great.
Vanessa Leone (31:03)
Yeah, think personally, so for myself, a little bit of a background for me is I used to dance, used to be a gymnast, and my feet are very malleable, they’re so hypermobile. If anyone is going to look back at this video, like here’s my foot. can we see? Hold on, I need to shuffle back a little bit. Here’s my foot. And my toe can literally push all the way back.
Dr Emily (31:30)
Wow, girl,
that is…
Vanessa Leone (31:31)
Yeah,
there’s some pretty lax ligaments in there. I’m extremely hypermobile. you know, my career as a dancer in pointe shoes wasn’t super successful because my feet just don’t have the requisite tension to be able to hold myself up in that position. So I actually had lots of ingrown toenails and all this kind of stuff while I was dancing because
You know, who knew at that stage when I was that young that my big toes are too hypermobile to be able to support my body weight. So my feet had started, even in my early twenties, to look like they were getting bunions. And that for me was, I was like, this is just not right. Like that doesn’t seem like that should be a thing. And so I started moving into the barefoot realm and barefoot was great.
because it made my foot wider and more stable, and we’ll talk about that as well in a second. But what really changed my foot shape to be able to actually stabilize even better was the splay. And honestly, for me, it’s so interesting looking at my foot shape now, like seeing how much space I have in between my toes. I think a lot of people don’t realize that the foot shape that we have
conventionally through conventional shoes that taper at the end versus what they’re actually kind of meant to look like. They’re two different things. It’s really interesting. How would you describe that to people?
Dr Emily (33:08)
Yeah, so the our toes, we’re talking about obviously the toes, so the toes coming in, are they natural, right? Kind of spread, are they like a stiletto? Our toes play very important role in balance, in force production, in that rigid lever, stabilizing that lever. So really, really important. And the ideal position for our toes is long, straight and flat.
wearing any sort of shoe that’s going to contract or narrow, you are taking away your balance, you’re taking away your power, your stability. So that’s where using something like toe spacers can help reinforce the ideal foot shape or toe shape of what you’re describing for better stability, better function, better balance.
Vanessa Leone (34:01)
Excellent, really cool. I talked about Barefoot. I was hasty in my transition from conventional shoes to Barefoot shoes. I wouldn’t recommend it. So for someone who is like, I’ve heard about Barefoot, sounds weird, I don’t know what’s going on, like why would I do that? What are some of their pros?
and benefits of moving into more kind of barefoot, even maybe just barefoot training rather than barefoot shoes.
Dr Emily (34:32)
Okay, yeah, so it could be both ways. So if you’re thinking of your current footwear, maybe it’s maximal, like a Hoka. Hoka is actually considered a maximal shoe that does have a built-in rocker, so there’s a carbon fiber plate through it. Or maybe it’s more like a New Balance or a Saucony, and there’s just like structure and rigidity, and it doesn’t twist at all, right? So are you trying to take away some of the features of support, stiffness?
cushion from a shoe to be more minimal, to allow more of the natural function of the foot, the natural range of motion, the natural shock absorption capacity of the human foot, the more freedom of toe spread and engagement, right? So these, there’s a benefit to that. And a majority of people can safely transition down towards that to achieve as…
close to a natural position as they can, a natural function of their human body as they can. If you want to go into more of a barefoot, then that’s truly accessing now all of the sensory stimulation of it, because even minimal shoes have some sort of barrier between your feet and the ground and sensory stimulation, right? So often I will navigate people based off of their activity. When would they be doing this, right?
let’s say if you’re swinging kettlebells, I would say love it if that could be totally barefoot. Like why even wear minimal shoes? It doesn’t make sense. unless if you’re in a commercial setting, then sure. Okay. Fine. Fine. but ideally is so that you can just kind of feel the inherent stability that your feet play in your body and your power and your hips and all of that. if you are walking around, kind of like
Saturday afternoon kind of thing right or whatever your athleisure kind of Vibe might be or where you are kind of walking around sure that could be more minimal If someone is a nurse and they stand on their feet 12 hours a day on concrete well that doesn’t make sense right so you really want to navigate your footwear Appropriateness Based off of three things. This is how we tell people
based off of your foot type, your injury history, and then the activity at which you’re going to be using the shoes or the footwear. So if you have a totally neutral foot, never have any history of any injury, and you’re looking for a shoe to wear at the gym, right? You by all means should be, could be in something minimal like a Vivo barefoot, right? If you have a…
overpronated flat foot with a history of plantar fasciitis and you want to run a marathon, okay, this is different because you are now, there’s different acceleration and higher impact forces when we’re running, you have an injury history and you have a foot that is historically a little bit slower to stabilize, right? So that’s how I try to navigate people and understand the role of footwear for one activity might not be the same for another activity and that’s okay.
Vanessa Leone (37:53)
great. Such a great explanation because I think, you know, there’s a lot of people in camps about like, you’re only barefoot or you’re only in shoes.
Dr Emily (38:03)
I hear that all day. All day,
all day. And you just, can’t, right? And there’s a time and place for all. There is, you know, even I would say that I have like maybe a little bit higher arch, but a neutral foot. But if I was going to be like traveling around Europe and I’m walking around the streets of Italy every single day for two weeks straight.
I’m going to have to understand the effect on any human body and say, okay, I can’t wear my vivos every day because it’s just going to start accumulating stress on my feet and my lower back and my body. right. So we, we have to have a filter of reality and we can’t go too far into drinking the Kool-Aid over here, which now you’re looking at it through a biased lens.
And just as a clinician, I can’t do that. I cannot look biased. I was trained as a surgeon and sometimes I tell people, you need surgery. You need orthotics. You need supportive shit. You need HOKA. Some people are surprised when I recommend HOKA, but there’s this baseline belief in natural foot function. And I’m going to try to get as many people as I can appropriately to that. And maybe it’s just at the gym and then at work they wear something else.
Vanessa Leone (39:29)
Yeah, I mean, I for sure have definitely probably been a party to swinging too far into that barefoot, you know, try to go as minimal as possible. It’s going to be better for you. And particularly, I suppose you can get a little bit stubborn when people give you the barrier of, they look bad. It’s like.
Okay, aside from that, if you have any other qualms about going that way, because you know, you, if you, think as well for a lot of people, if you had potentially, I would call them like upstream injuries, you know, like a bit of back pain while you train or, you know, shoulder and hip or knee. I think that while you’re training specifically,
barefoot or a minimalist or something like that can be super beneficial for you. Because of all of the things that you’ve alluded to in today’s talk, where would you kind of stand with something like that? What’s your finishing words on people who question in the middle?
Dr Emily (40:37)
Yeah, I mean, I, that’s where there’s a great transitional shoe, right? Is to, is to see them. there’s now minimal shoe dress brands. So it’s not just an athletic. I think originally in the barefoot running boom and when the view room, five fingers came out, Nike free kind of that space, people were associating.
Dr Emily (41:08)
barefoot shoes, which minimal shoes, same thing, right? As running shoes. So there was this, that type of footwear is only for activities like this. And that’s not the case. And now it’s become much more of a broader category. that shoes like, do remember Toms?
Vanessa Leone (41:33)
I don’t know.
Dr Emily (41:33)
They were like this
kind of like a, not really like a, not a boat shoe. was like a little slide and they, they were one of the first brands that would like donate shoes for everyone that was buy a pair, they donate a pair. There was kind of that first like B Corp kind of philosophy behind it. But Toms were very trendy. I can’t remember how many years ago, I think it was before the barefoot running boom. And it was just kind of like a, when I was in New York city, would be like everyone from Brooklyn wore Toms.
Dr Emily (42:05)
It’s like a cash shoe, But that was a minimal shoe, right? These like cheapo shoes that you can get out like a discount store. don’t know what a discount store in Australia would be, but like, right, the $10 kind of thing, $10 on Amazon now is, those are minimal shoes. So it’s not like they never existed before this time of conversation that we’re in, right?
Dr Emily (42:34)
So I’m very in it. The human foot is designed to carry itself, right? We were not designed to wear shoes. We were not designed to wear orthotics either. Are there deviations just because of modern society and certain injury patterns we see now, but also diagnostics?
has changed from hundreds of years ago, they didn’t ever memorize that. So they didn’t know that they had a torn tendon, right? So it’s very different on how we navigate it, but as much as we can start to tap into that full potential, and for people that are oftentimes skeptical, we don’t know what we don’t know until we start to realize it, right? And be introduced to it, right? So if we’ve only always known
shod movement. Of course we don’t understand natural movement.
Vanessa Leone (43:35)
Very cool. Nice thought to finish on that one. Last question, it’s nice quick one. I ask every guest, I call myself a movement therapist and I think anything can really come under movement therapy, which I think is why I like it. What are you currently doing for yourself that you would think is movement therapy?
Dr Emily (43:59)
I have a great one for you. Because I do consider movement therapy. So I do ballroom now. is, yes. And I am doing my first competition in less than a month. And I’m doing the Latin style. So I’m going to be doing cha-cha, samba, and rumba. So, yes, yes. And I also think this is where I look at movement for therapy, not to…
Vanessa Leone (44:01)
That’s so exciting.
Dr Emily (44:29)
too much is movement that pulls you into the present moment is extremely therapeutic mind-body-soul. And that’s how I look at movement, like when I do movement, is I need something that will pull me into the present moment.
Vanessa Leone (44:50)
a great breakdown of it. And I’ve seen some of your clips on Instagram, it looks so fun, the ballroom. There’s no judgement. think that’s the scary part for people stepping into something like that, you know, as we get older, is like, everyone’s gonna judge me because I don’t feel like I’m good at it, but you never get good at anything if you don’t try it, and you know what, like you said, it immerses you.
Vanessa Leone (45:16)
you feel it in your body, in your mind, in your emotion, and that is so much more valuable than some stupid person being like, you’re no good at that, like, f you.
Dr Emily (45:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, that reminds me of your mentor, Mike Fitch, and his quote of, get good at being bad. And I just like, like that just resonates with me. And before my ballroom journey, I was on an aerial journey and I was doing aerial silks and straps and kind of circus arts, I guess you could call them.
Dr Emily (45:53)
I went in the exact same way and was like, day one, don’t know anything about this movement language, right? And it literally changed my life. So now that’s how I went into ballroom. was like, I am a grasshopper. Teach me. Right? I will be your student. So, yeah.
Vanessa Leone (46:08)
Ha
That’s incredible. Very cool.
Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. I appreciate you being here and anyone who wants questions, Naboso products, all of the information is in the show notes. I’m even going to put up a video of what a good kettlebell swing looks like versus the muscular kettlebell swing, alright? So you can click on it. Thank you, Emily.
Dr Emily (46:32)
Yes. Yes. Thank
you so much.
Vanessa Leone Movement Therapist 